A Conversation with DeAndre Simmons
On becoming Sweeney Todd, working with Barbara Cook, and balancing opera & musical theatre
It was wonderful to meet American bass DeAndre Simmons ahead of his starring role as Sweeney Todd with San Diego Musical Theatre. DeAndre has a wealth of experience in operatic, symphonic, and musical theatre contexts, and I was really keen to find out how he approaches a role like Sweeney from these perspectives. He also discusses the time he spent working with Barbara Cook, and with Sondheim himself. Our conversation begins below:
We're speaking a couple of weeks before your Sweeney Todd opens, which is very exciting. I know it's a dream role for you, and a show that you’ve known for years and years. How does it feel to actually be Sweeney for the first time?
It's tremendous. You think, “Oh, here are my top five roles in the world of performing.” And obviously I have some in the opera world as well. But in musical theatre, this is it. This is the pinnacle of what I have ever wanted to do in terms of roles. And I've only really put direct musical theatre (that isn’t attached to an opera house or a symphony) back in my program, so to speak, over the last four years. So to be in this role so quickly is not only head-spinning, but is just incredible. I walk into rehearsal every day absolutely elated that I get to sing this music, that I get to walk in these shoes. It's just incredible. I don't even know if I have all the adjectives to explain it just yet.
Just last weekend, there was a Sondheim concert with the San Diego Symphony, where Len Cariou was one of the guest artists. And to see him up there at 80 plus years old still doing it, and still doing it marvelously, it was so inspiring and encouraging and all that great stuff. I got him to sign my score.
It’s funny you mention Len Cariou, because Sweeney is one of those roles with such a glittering performance history. What has it been like to find your own way into this character and make Sweeney your own?
The specificities of other roles are not as intense by the composer as they are in this score. And because they are so intense, it's easy to just follow what he says, and suddenly, bit by bit—no pun intended—you start to develop this style. And yes, of course Mr. Cariou created the role. But that doesn't take away from the fact that George Hearn was an extraordinary Sweeney also. So was Michael Cerveris, and so was Brian Stokes Mitchell. So yes, I've listened to the recordings, and I listen to them all the time. But what I don't do is listen to one recording at a time. I don't rewind “My Friends” or “Epiphany” or something with one person, for that exact reason. You don't want their opinions and ideas to seep into your mind, because of course you'll walk on stage and then do that, regardless of whether you think you are or not, because it becomes ingrained.
When I was learning the role on my own, I didn't listen to anything. Of course I've heard these recordings for years and years, but I didn't listen to anything for about two weeks. I just sat at the piano, learning my part, memorizing and thinking of it. And then slowly I started putting on recordings, listening especially to the ensemble. And that way, I was having an overview of it in my head, and not listening specifically to any one person—because it grafts on rather quickly, where they took a breath or how they held a note or something like that.
But that coupled with listening ad nauseam almost to any of the interviews that Mr. Sondheim gave about Sweeney Todd specifically, and Hal Prince also speaking about Sweeney Todd specifically. Why did Sondheim write these melodies specifically for each character? And we know that in this musical he uses the leitmotif masterfully, and so richly. Every time you hear an eight-note phrase, there's a reason for it. And he repeats them, turns them upside down, moves them backwards, whatever it is, truncates them in some way. But it's all there.
So I try to, one, go with what Maestro Sondheim said in his score. Then I add on what he and Hal Prince have said about the character and about the show. And then I formulate my own opinions about why he would have done something, why he would have acted a certain way. Come on: living in essentially a concentration camp for 15 years falsely—for any reason, but certainly falsely—would definitely lead one to be angry and broody all the time, as we often see him. But of course there's also the loving part of it, because no matter what, his main objective is to come back and hopefully find his wife and his daughter. And unfortunately, things don't go that way necessarily, but nonetheless…
If someone's reading this and they’re near San Diego, what can they expect from this Sweeney Todd? What’s special to you about this production?
Yes, it's in beautiful San Diego with San Diego Musical Theatre. The show opens September 20th and runs through October 20th, Thursdays through Sundays with matinees on Saturdays and Sundays. This is an intimate production, more like what Maestro Sondheim wanted in the beginning. We are only about 12 to 15 people, with a small orchestra that is on stage with us, integrated into the production. We, unlike the production with Michael Cerveris and Patti LuPone, are not playing instruments. But it's an intimate setting in a smaller theater, which makes it, I think, a little more intense, a little more dramatic, and very much more about the story itself.
So we are giving you the bits of the actual play on which this musical is based, and then we're also giving you bits of what Sondheim wanted originally in his concept, which the Doyle production of course leans towards. It's exciting! We're only two hours—an hour and a half if you get the traffic right—from LA, so we hope that people will come from all over to see this really wonderful group of artists put on this extraordinary musical.
People often speak about Sondheim, and particularly Sweeney Todd, as bridging musical theatre and opera in some respects. As someone who has been so immersed in both worlds, I’d love to know what you think about that idea—perhaps particularly in terms of your own vocal production.
I don't change too much, but I don't sing Sondheim the same way I would sing Verdi. One has to remember we're going to be mic’d. Opera is the only vocal art form where we continue not to use amplification. In musical theatre, your colleagues’ voices may not always be as big by nature of the art form. So I don't hold back necessarily, but singing Sondheim the same way I would sing Verdi wouldn't make any sense. But I don't change too much because I wouldn't want to jeopardize my ability to sustain the vocalism of the show. And this show particularly is quite different from singing, let's say, The Music Man or something like that. My voice lends itself to golden-age musicals, so yes, it sounds a little more classical oriented than some modern-day musical theatre singers certainly.
But one has to remember that in the earliest parts of musical theatre, most often it was an actual opera singer singing roles. The original Emile in South Pacific, Ezio Pinza, was one of the greatest operatic basses out there. Or you have Leontyne Price singing Porgy and Bess on Broadway, and then touring it around the country. Those roles lent themselves to the more classically oriented sound. And in this show particularly, if you don't have a solid technique and classical footholds, I don't know how you make it, because you have to balance vocally the rage he has with the softness and love he has for his family. And you have to balance all of that with these interspersions that are rather high: Fs and F♯s and Gs. And then of course on the lower end, you have Es and Fs on the bottom. You definitely have to govern yourself in a certain way. So it is easier for me to sing Sweeney Todd than it would be for me to sing Harold Hill.
And it’s a funny thing that Sondheim was not generally a fan of opera. But I cannot right now think of a part in Sweeney, Night Music, so many of these shows, where you don’t have to use some head voice. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of a role where belting the entire thing is even possible. Even the Witch has to flip into something slightly different. This is not the same as Rent.
And I know you had the opportunity to spend a good deal of time with Barbara Cook. Could you share a little of what you learned from her? And does her advice resonate particularly when you're preparing for a Sondheim role?
Oh, having the privilege of working with Barbara Cook for some years is still one of the highlights of my performing life, and as a human being. She was so giving in terms of her time, her advice, her skills, the tools she gave. My sessions would usually be about two hours, and we'd wind up being there four or five hours. She had a marvelous technique, because she had a vocal pedagogue as a voice teacher who she went to for about 10 years, who really set her up in a way that obviously allowed her to sing marvelously well into her advanced age.
And so working with her afforded me a way to understand this kind of music: musical theatre, American Songbook songs, Irving Berlin, Gershwin, Harold Arlen, and on and on. It afforded me that thing we were mentioning earlier in getting away from the fact that I'm an opera singer. I have a voice. My voice is there. I don't need to put all of that into what I do. And if the voice is there, now let's talk about giving it to the audience. Understanding what the music is and being able to relate that to myself, to my life, and perform it in a way that makes it relatable to the audience in their lives, which is that connectivity that has to happen in order for the audience to really be with you in a performance. And that's one thing that she for sure gave me: get away from the idea that it's a performance, and lean into the idea that it's a conversation.
And she, in fact, introduced me to Maestro Sondheim. That's how I coached a couple of things with him. And these are experiences that one doesn't easily forget.
I bet. As you think back to your time with him, what stands out to you about Sondheim as a person?
He was extremely specific, but in working with him, he wanted things a certain way, he wanted to achieve certain things musically, but he also wanted the story to be told. And using the words, then the notes, was more of his focus. Yes, the notes are there. The rhythms are there. They are important. Do it. But the job is also to get these words across the footlights in a way that's meaningful to the audience.
And obviously I didn't work with him until he was much older, but he was laid back. He was nice, kind, funny, and obviously witty. I only had two sessions with him. The first one was about an hour, and then the second one was maybe about three hours. Probably about two thirds we were working, and one third was just my fanaticism of, “So what about this?” “Why did you do this?” and that kind of thing. And so that too was a major experience that I would say gave me a number of tools that I'm now picking out of the tool bag as I go on this journey of Sweeney.
And thinking about your career in years to come, how do you see both musical theatre and opera as part of that? What would an ideal balance look like to you?
I started doing musicals when I was six, and I did a lot of musicals and plays all the way until I was in my twenties. And then the opera world is a jealous mistress, as they say, so it was a little harder to do musicals, especially given the circles that I was in. But I've certainly always loved musical theatre. I would say that in the next 10 years, what I hope is that the musical theatre world will be a good part of my performance life, along with the opera and classical music.
We're living in an age where musical theatre is becoming far more mainstream than perhaps it had been, in the sense that most major opera houses in the world are including musical theatre in their seasons. Chicago Lyric Opera recently did Fiddler on the Roof. Many opera companies, of course, do A Little Night Music, because you can cast it with all opera singers. And of course there’s Bryn Terfel’s Sweeney Todd. If I could sing classical music and Sondheim musicals for the rest of my life, I'd be okay. I'd be quite happy. If I could sing Sweeney for a number of years until it only made sense to sing Turpin, I'd be okay with that. So I hope that the musical theatre world remains an integral part of my performance life for as long as possible. 50/50? I'll take it.
For more information about the San Diego Musical Theatre production of Sweeney Todd, and to buy tickets, click here.