A Conversation with Grace Yurchuk

On Sondheim, Caesar, and her new album, "Just Between Us"

It was such a joy to speak to composer & singer-songwriter Grace Yurchuk about her creative process, Stephen Sondheim, navigating and harnessing social media, and a whole lot more besides. We discussed her new live album, Just Between Us, and the Julius Caesar musical she is developing too. If you already follow Grace on Instagram or TikTok, you’ll know how infectious her energy and enthusiasm is. If you’re just discovering her, you’re in for a treat. Our conversation begins below:

Grace, it’s so good to meet you. We’re talking a few days after the release of Just Between Us, the live album you’ve just put out into the world. How have these first days felt?

Oh my goodness. It’s been so exciting. It’s been less than a year since I released my first album, which was entirely pop. It was such a different sound. And my goal for this, in the realm of all of the videos I’ve shared and my presence on social media, has just been me on the piano. I wanted to try to create something that was as close to that feeling as possible.

I’ve been asked a lot of times, “Hey, could you just do a piano-vocal version of this?”—so I’ve been gathering a lot of those requests, and a lot of those songs that I’m proud of as a writer, and I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the response that I’ve gotten! You can never truly know what an audience is going to think of what you put out there. And it’s by no means perfect. I’m not going to look back years from now and be like, “That was the best take I ever got of that song!” But I wanted it to feel real and be real—as if you were stumbling upon them on your TikTok For You Page, dare I say.

You’ve curated a really beautiful corner of the internet where everyone seems so generous and supportive. The replies you get when you post a song aren’t just three words long—people are really listening to your work, following your progress, and clearly getting so much from your music. One of the comments you get quite a lot is along the lines of, “This reminds me of Sondheim.” I’d love to know what you think people might be responding to in particular when they write that.

First of all, I am so unbelievably flattered by those comments as a new writer. Whenever I see something like that, I’m like, “Really?” I’m always so genuinely flattered. It’s my favorite comment to ever receive, and also why I’m so glad to be talking to you.

I have a very small private studio where I teach students about basics of songwriting, and I try to explain this idea to them very often about what I find so interesting about Sondheim and all of his work. I feel like the comparison might come from being so lyrically driven. Obviously, in a patter song, yes, I’m trying to find constant internal rhyme and things that might be clever. I’m never going to be able to think of words and how they fall the way Sondheim did. He’s on a different level. And every time I listen to interviews and watch him talk and read any of the books I have on him, I’m just constantly impressed. But I do think that people look out for those lyrics and that rhyme.

I think the patter songs are often where people will be like, “Oh, this sounds Sondheim-y.” I’m very lyrically and story driven when it comes to trying to get into the head of a character. What I tell my students is that I’m putting on my character hat—and hats are very Sondheim, aren’t they? I’m trying to really become someone else and finding incredibly specific and sometimes surprising words to get that across—discovering a particular character’s logic in a way that isn’t too generic or too expected. It’s a balance that I try to find, and people might say that’s a little “Sondheim-y.”

Speaking of Sondheim-y qualities, there’s something so organic about the way your lyrics fuse with your melodic writing—those natural speech rhythms that can make songs really sparkle. Is that something you’re paying attention to as you’re working on something new?

Yes! I’m so glad you asked this because I care about this so deeply. I think part of it is rooted in the performance background that I have, and that I went to school for classical vocal performance. I’ve seen a lot of my friends who majored in musical theater performance receive new work where they struggled with the way it’s written, where for the sake of trying to have a lot of words in a short amount of time, it’s very difficult to get across. I spend hours and hours and hours of my time trying to make sure that words sit correctly and can be understood also by the listener at the same time. If a performer is struggling to make it something that it’s not, then that’s a me thing that I want to go back and fix and make it easier all around.

I’ve been working on my Julius Caesar musical constantly, and one of those songs was such a mouthful. I know that Sondheim would sit at the piano and be like, “How would this fall if a person was saying it?” I do have to put myself back in that headspace when I’m trying to be too impressive with a particular scheme. Like, let’s take it back a notch and see if it actually feels natural. I care about that a lot.

Tell me more about this Caesar musical! You’ve given us two demos on the album, a little taste of what’s to come—and there are more glimpses of the show in videos you’ve already posted. I’d love to know a little more about this show and your plans for it.

I’m so happy and excited to talk about it. I have a post-it wall behind me right now of all the things that have to be done. Basically, during my final semester at NYU, suddenly I had this growing online presence for sharing my standalone theater pieces and mini songs. That was all very new to me. And like you said, you’ve seen lots of my comments. Plenty of people were starting to say, “Where’s the musical? Where is it?” And the way this all began, I saw West 4th Stage Company at NYU Steinhardt put on this all-treble voice version of Jesus Christ Superstar. A lot of my very close friends were in it, and I was just instantly obsessed. That was the first seed that was planted. I saw this version and was feeling very inspired. At the same time, I’m also recording all of my daily songs.

And on March 1st, I had written a song from the POV of Brutus, just for funsies. I hadn’t done any research yet. I hadn’t even read the full play of Julius Caesar, which I’m basing this entire thing on. It was just as an exercise, as I often do. And I sat with that idea for a couple of weeks after I’d seen the show, being like, “I really liked writing for that character.” On a whim in April, I decided to go back to it and look at the Shakespeare play, just to take a look and try and get my head into some of those characters. And so purely as a draft, as another exercise, I decided to try my Brutus song again and be more accurate to the character. And that video, wherever I shared it, people were like, “I like this idea. This is a good idea”—which I was so shocked by. It’s on a piece of loose leaf paper, that first draft, and I have not really changed it since then.

And so I was like, “You know what? Why not run with this?” My whole life has been about trying to do something new, something that I feel called to do and that I’m really passionate about. So combining all of these elements, I’m doing a Shakespeare adaptation from the play and doing an all-treble version of Julius Caesar. And I’ve been sharing little tidbits as I go, which comes with a whole new set of challenges. I feel so blessed that people are banking on the potential of it and believe in me and how I’m writing it. I feel like people are gravitating towards the fact that I’m being honest about it and being like, “This is a draft of Calpurnia’s song.” “This is a draft of how I imagine the opening number to go.”

Lots of things are happening behind the scenes that I’m keeping a secret, but I just keep building it every day. And I’m trying to find that balance of sharing everything that’s going on, but also waiting and knowing that good things take time, and dedicating myself to creating a full work that is really thought through. I don’t want it to be rushed, or to only exist on the internet. I want it to be produced and done live, because that’s my heart.

And this breadth of feedback that you get as you’re writing, from people you’ve never met in real life—I think we can maybe take for granted just how new that opportunity is. We can look backward in time and picture those conversations happening in private rooms, with collaborators and friends—but I’d love to know more about how that kind of instant online feedback feeds into your process.

I’m addicted to watching Sondheim interviews, and there’s this one from years ago where he talks about how different it is for newer musical theater writers compared to how it was in the Golden Age, where they were putting out like two shows a season—that there’s a different version of having to be able to test your material. When it comes to sharing my work, I’m a new writer. I’m still building what I stand for and what I care about. So my version of being able to do that, I think, is forcibly putting myself out there on the internet, which at times is difficult. It’s still a learning curve for me. I’m very active, and I really try to respond to people. Like you said, I’m not just getting, “I like this.” I’m getting legitimate analysis of my work, and people keep tabs and genuinely care. I couldn’t ask for anything more than that.

And legitimate criticism I like to take into account, because I really am testing this material for a real audience. The people who are watching do genuinely care. And if they’re offering things like that, I do care about it. And it’s also just heavy on my mind because one of the themes in Julius Caesar for me, since it’s such a political show, is trusting audiences. There are characters within the show who think that the Romans don’t have much political savvy and just think that they can manipulate people. And there are other people who think that the Roman people are smart and they understand, and that they care about these things and are invested.

For me, as a writer, I know I will never be able to control what an audience thinks of my work. The only thing I can do is be confident in what I’m presenting, and know that I put in the work and the research and the time creating what I care about. And if people don’t like it, at least they have something to have an opinion about. I want my work to be strong enough that it’s critiquable. That’s what I really care about. But it’s definitely a balance. I try to take out the algorithmic game. When people tell me, “You have to do this specific thing,” for hits or views or whatever, I take that out—because what I care about the most is making something that I passionately believe in, and that I know is the best that I could have put out there.

When you think back to the first video of yours that went properly viral, did you have a sense before posting it of, “This is a great 30-second introduction to who I am and what I’m about,” or did it just take on a life of its own?

I will tell you, yes: the first one that had that response, I did predict that it was going to work. I don’t know why I felt so strongly. My first album had just come out. It had been a month. And at that point, I was thinking I might have to find a hobby or something. I was going to start drawing. I was feeling pretty dejected at this point, especially because it was my senior year. And I love to write—I would never give that up for anything—but I was just trying to sort out what my life was about to look like.

At this point, I didn’t have a following at all on any platform. Scrolling through TikTok, and with its For You Page, you don't know what you're going to get—so it can be a little bit mindless. And I’m saying that as someone who will mindlessly scroll through TikTok and suddenly be like, “I need a break.” Since I can’t test my material in the way I might have done in the past, I think it came to a point where I thought, “If this is the world that we have, I’m going to try to do this on here and make my way.”

So that December, I thought about what it’s like to mindlessly scroll. And if you’re a face that no one has ever seen and you’re a voice that no one has ever heard, and you have a name that no one has ever heard, how do you get someone to stay? I thought, if I only have a second for someone to choose to stay, what am I offering them? That became the origin of me looking directly at the camera, and the setup I have with my phone and the piano. They have to see me and they have to understand what I’m saying right off the bat. I was like, “I’m just going to do a patter and see what happens”—and it worked. I couldn’t believe it. I knew a little bit that if I said all those words, and it had that impact right away, that it might work. But then when it actually did, I was like, “No way.”

After that first video, I didn’t want to fall into the formula of doing this just for attention or hits or likes or views or whatever. I care so deeply about that not overcoming me throughout this entire process, so I didn't want to fall into a pattern. I just kept writing. There were all these comments that were like, “This is theater. I love musical theater.” And for me, I was like, “It is?!” So I finally started to let myself follow that new instinct, and I’ve let that instinct carry me through the entire process.

How did musical theater sit alongside your classical studies growing up, and alongside the other types of music you loved too?

I’m so excited to talk about this, because I feel like theater crept into my life in ways that I never really expected it to. I didn’t do drama club. I did drama in high school for two years. I was more focused on the classical side of things. I only shifted to wanting to be a vocal student halfway through high school, so I was a pianist first. That’s my heart. That’s where I like to be. But I think I was always a distant theater fan, if that makes sense. I’ve always enjoyed the idea of creating something and being a part of something. In class, if we ever did the plays aloud, I would always be like, “I hope I get to play Juliet.”

But growing up, I listened more to pop music. I had a lot of different phases. I think my parents raised me to care a lot about many different things and explore as much as much as I possibly could. I even played soccer for a little bit. So, while sometimes I’m sad that I wasn’t a Rachel Berry, where I knew exactly what I wanted, I’m grateful that I have this path where I took from lots of different genres and facets of life. When I write, I feel like I have so much to pull from. At the same time though, all of my close friends are those diehard theater people who have been doing this since they were three—and there’s nothing I love more than getting to sit with them and hearing them talk about all these different shows they saw growing up, and just their sheer love for it. I learn so much from that.

I’d love to know a little more about your approach to vocal style and production. Are you consciously switching between pop, musical theater and classical modes, maybe blending them in specific ways? And how much of your melodic writing is informed your voice itself—how things sit, and flourishes you particularly enjoy?

I love thinking about this, because I am such a sucker for a little portamento. That’s the classical girl in me: if I would do it when I’m performing a French art song, I might pull that version of Grace into more of a theater song too. And it depends on the song. I’m trying not to think of switching into different modes, but most of the time that is what I do. I think it’s rooted in the goal of the song, and the goal of who I’m becoming at certain moments. In this album, “The Movies” is just point blank a musical theater song in a more modern, contemporary style: a girl belting with a little bit of mix in there. That’s what I would consider a modern sound.

And when it comes to my writing in general, there’s a lot of different things that I like to do. There’s the mix, the head voice, different lower, beltier, chesty things. I want to explore… I want to explore the light! I want to explore all of those different facets, especially when I’m writing for someone else and thinking about how they will want to do it. I also think that’s rooted in the NYU Steinhardt philosophy, which was one of the reasons why I ended up choosing to go there: finding your own unique voice and being able to sing full-fledge in the way that you know how to sing, not trying to be anyone else. So yeah, there are times when I write and I think, “This is for the classical version of me. I know how this is going to fit in my voice. I know it’s going to be a little bit more head voice. I’m going to throw in all those portamentos and things like that.” Other times, I just think about the placement and where it’s going to sit, what’s going to be the most effective, and that’s how I go about it.

Are there particular songwriters or composers you find yourself gravitating to harmonically, melodically, lyrically, or just in general?

This is a tricky one, because often, the way that I listen to music, I’ll really fixate on one song specifically. Often, instead of listening to full albums, I’ll be making playlists of a particular sort of song. Right now, I’m surrounded by my posters of all my favorite artists. It depends on the era of life that I’m in, honestly, because most of what I listened to growing up was pop. I think that’s where a lot of the melody comes from, especially when I talk to my students about it. I’ll admit I’m a big Taylor Swift fan. Her pop formula is amazing.

When it comes to story though, and when it comes to dialogue-driven music, that’s when I look at my theater people. I’m entering a huge Jonathan Larson phase of my life, where I can’t stop listening to Rent. But I’ll also just go listen to a Sondheim show. Who wouldn’t want to write something like that? And I do try to follow my own instincts as well. Sometimes when I do start thinking about other artists, I’ll just write something that is a song for them and not something that has come from me.

And I bet that writing songs daily has helped lessen the fear of imitating other writers, or at least helps you not to overthink that side of things. Was there a specific moment where you made a decision to put something out into the world literally every day?

When I was first starting out, it was a form of practice for me. I was in my own little world—because it was only last December that I decided to finally follow this instinct and be like, “I’m going to try writing theatrically.” I was truly just sharing practice, which was crazy and very frightening. People really enjoyed it. And I was like, “I’m just hoping and praying that I’m doing something right.” So I would try to come up with different plots and different storylines that I could write about every single day. Sometimes it would depend simply on my walk through NYU, if I saw something that I thought was interesting—or on the weather that day, or on how I woke up.

I lived in the practice rooms while I was there. I would get there at 9:00. I’d warm up a little bit, and then, for the sake of the exercise, I would try to write and record everything in an hour or just a little bit over—and then I’d spend another hour practising my classical things. It was a matter of trying to stay fresh and just seeing what I could do. I was learning at the same time as I was sharing, which is very exciting to look back on.

Do you have any plans to do live shows around this album that you can talk about at the moment?

I want to look more into this! Right now, I have nothing booked. [Since we spoke, Grace has announced a live performance at Breaking Sound at pinkFROG cafe in NYC! Click here for more info and tickets.] I’m in my writing cavern working on this show—which is so fun. I love my little songwriting cave, but I do care so much about live performance too. I would love to return to New York and do a few solo shows. I can’t even imagine me a year ago saying that that would be something I could do. I think part of this has also been me gambling on my own confidence at times. This is so new for me, and I grew up much more shy and reserved than I am now. I’m learning that it’s going to be okay to put myself out there and perform live, just like I wanted to! I would love to do some things surrounding this album, and hopefully finding a balance where if people can’t come in person, having some sort of livestream, and doing some more virtual live things too. I’m definitely thinking about that a lot.

And the final track of Just Between Us ends not on chord I, but chord IV, which perhaps might give us a sonic clue that there’s more to come… I know your Caesar musical is front and center for you right now, but are there more live releases planned too?

Oh, yes, absolutely. Now that I’ve done a live album, I want to keep doing it. I think about it in the same vein where people will listen to older recordings of things because of the imperfections that exist in them. In the pop world, Jack Antonoff recently did something where he was talking about how he produced “Please Please Please.” At the core of it, it’s a relatively simple song, but then he shows how, hidden in the tracks, it suddenly will become this wonderful symphony, but only for a second. There are so many layers to that.

But now I really want to revel in that sort of imperfection, because live performances are never going to be this version of perfect. It’s a linear experience. And I think people deserve to have something like that given to them in real time, that is real and feels intimate—i.e., just between us! I honestly think I’ll continue, and I’ll do multiple live albums as I continue growing as a writer. I don’t want everything that I ever put out to be professionally produced. I love just having these things exist.

You can follow Grace on Instagram by clicking here, or on TikTok by clicking here.